you'll pry my gun from my cold dead hands...

So, 30 something people killed in Virginia today by some dude with a gun.

Any online discussion you can find on this has most likely already devolved down to dope smoking PETA hippy types on one side saying our liberal (can I use that word in this instance?) gun ownership laws are to blame and ex-marine right wing libertarian types on the other side telling the hippys that Any society willing to give up a little liberty for a little security deserves neither and will lose both.

I haven't watched any news but I'm sure the tv and misc talking heads are choosing sides too.

Even the Prez was sure to jump in with the President believes that there is a right for people to bear arms, but that all laws must be followed.

He's gotta reassure the NRA types that he's still a cowboy and is on their side.

I think all my buddies own multiple guns. Both handguns and rifles. At least one has a concealed carry permit and since he got it he's packed heat when he came to our poker games. Kinda silly I think.

Me, I'm sort of the anomaly in my group. I own a gun, sort of. My dad gave me a shotgun many many years ago and I still own it, but it's always been stored at my parent's house. I shot it a bit when I was younger but now, I couldn't even tell you what brand it is. We used to go to these turkey shoots back in Indiana that were fun. No actual turkeys were shot, we'd shoot at targets and the person with the best score (I even forget how they scored them) would win a frozen turkey.

I don't really have a strong opinion on gun ownership. On one hand, I understand the people that own guns. Part of me would like to own a nice pistol or two. I've went target shooting and plinking a few times and it's fun. When I was a kid I had BB guns all the time. My cousins and I would even have BB gun wars and shoot at each other :p Yah, that's what they call young and dumb, I guess. Luckily we all have two eyes still.

Guns are cool. The good ones are finely machined, high precision, superbly engineered tools. One of the few areas where you can still get a product that reeks of quality craftsmanship. In this age of planned obsolescence, guns are still made to last.

They are also very American. Ingrained into our 'collective psyche' by just about every form of mass media since mass media was invented. This is especially true if you are an American Male. American Men have guns and are competent in their use. At least, that's what we are told.

This is certainly true of me. When I was very young I never left the house without my two plastic six shooters strapped on. There is a stretch in our old family photo albums where all the pictures of me show me wearing boots, six guns and a cowboy hat. That's how I defined myself then :P

And guns are powerful. All the movies say, if you got a loaded gun in your hand, you're a bad motherfucker and you make the rules. And who doesn't want to be that? Nothing quite feels like a loaded gun in your hand. Especially if you don't hold one often. It's heavy, and not just physically. Having that gun in your hand puts you in a different frame of mind.

Despite this, I don't own a gun.
For one, they are expensive. I mean, if I got one, I wouldn't want a cheap piece of shit.
Two, I don't really see the need for one. Beyond the techno geek joy of holding it and admiring it and taking it out and shooting stuff up (which isn't really cheap either, beyond the cost of the ammo, I don't really know of any good places to go shooting that are free.) I don't see the point of owning a gun.

I asked my buddy that had a concealed carry permit and brings his pistol with him when we play poker, why? His answer was that due to his job (he's a locksmith) he travels a lot, often in remote rural areas, with a van full of expensive tools and he felt he needed some protection. I asked him if he was willing to shoot somebody to keep them from stealing his van full of tools and he said that wasn't the point. He had insurance for the tools. He wanted to protect himself. From random psychos, I suppose.

I can understand wanting to not be killed by random psychos, but does that really happen all that often? I'm 41 years old and I've never been in a situation where I needed a gun to feel safe. I imagine that I've often been in situations where having a gun at hand might have been dangerous. Times when melancholy + too much beer + too much of The Smiths might have had me doing something stupid with that gun. Or just too much beer might have had me do some other stupid thing with that gun. Or too much anger.

Of course, my inability to control myself, one might say, is no reason for other people to be denied the right to own and bear arms, and that would be correct. I think that lots of people might be more dangerous with a gun in easy reach.

What it comes down to, the danger presented by a loaded gun being within easy reach 24/7 I think greatly outweighs the danger of a random psycho doing me bodily harm because I didn't have a gun.

That's because, sorry, but... people are stupid. Guns are very powerful and most people are too stupid to have access to that power. Stupid and unwise. Or just ignorant.

Many years ago, some friends were gaming at one of their apartments. The guy whose apartment they were gaming at was really into the paint ball fad that was going on then and had several paint ball guns. One of the other dudes that was there wandered into the bedroom and came back out holding a loaded shotgun. Round in the chamber. It was a short barreled gun with a pistol grip handle so it didn't really look like your standard shotgun, but still. He came out holding this and said something about 'what a cool paint ball gun this is'. Everybody else knew it wasn't a paint ball gun and managed to get it away from him without mishap, but it could have been a very bad situation. The guy wasn't really stupid, but he was ignorant about guns.

When I was very young and my dad was still in the army, we had a neighbor who kept a loaded shotgun next to his front door just 'in case any niggers try to break in'. One day his little girl accidently killed herself with that gun. What can you say? Tell some NRA guy that story and he'll lecture you on responsible gun ownership, but the fact is, many many people that own guns are not responsible. That's the problem.

I used to be in the NRA myself when I was a kid. Used to target shoot 22's at Fort Ord and had to join the NRA to do so. So you best watch it around me!

And then there is the idea that we need to be able to own guns to protect ourselves from tyrants. I agree 100%.

But. Will an army of citizens armed with deer rifles be much of a threat against our modern military? I don't know. I think at one time this was a viable thought, but the gap between private military science and what the government has in military science has be become so large that this argument is losing it's credibility.

And really, if we were going to actually rise up against a tryant, wouldn't now be a good time for it? I'd say this is the closest we've been to a government in need of being overthrown, but mention that possiblity and you'll be branded a radicial leftist terrorist. Probably by the same NRA guys that told you they needed their guns to protect themselves from tyrants.

you'll pry my gun from my cold dead hands...

So, 30 something people killed in Virginia today by some dude with a gun.

Any online discussion you can find on this has most likely already devolved down to dope smoking PETA hippy types on one side saying our liberal (can I use that word in this instance?) gun ownership laws are to blame and ex-marine right wing libertarian types on the other side telling the hippys that Any society willing to give up a little liberty for a little security deserves neither and will lose both.

I haven't watched any news but I'm sure the tv and misc talking heads are choosing sides too.

Even the Prez was sure to jump in with the President believes that there is a right for people to bear arms, but that all laws must be followed.

He's gotta reassure the NRA types that he's still a cowboy and is on their side.

I think all my buddies own multiple guns. Both handguns and rifles. At least one has a concealed carry permit and since he got it he's packed heat when he came to our poker games. Kinda silly I think.

Me, I'm sort of the anomaly in my group. I own a gun, sort of. My dad gave me a shotgun many many years ago and I still own it, but it's always been stored at my parent's house. I shot it a bit when I was younger but now, I couldn't even tell you what brand it is. We used to go to these turkey shoots back in Indiana that were fun. No actual turkeys were shot, we'd shoot at targets and the person with the best score (I even forget how they scored them) would win a frozen turkey.

I don't really have a strong opinion on gun ownership. On one hand, I understand the people that own guns. Part of me would like to own a nice pistol or two. I've went target shooting and plinking a few times and it's fun. When I was a kid I had BB guns all the time. My cousins and I would even have BB gun wars and shoot at each other :p Yah, that's what they call young and dumb, I guess. Luckily we all have two eyes still.

Guns are cool. The good ones are finely machined, high precision, superbly engineered tools. One of the few areas where you can still get a product that reeks of quality craftsmanship. In this age of planned obsolescence, guns are still made to last.

They are also very American. Ingrained into our 'collective psyche' by just about every form of mass media since mass media was invented. This is especially true if you are an American Male. American Men have guns and are competent in their use. At least, that's what we are told.

This is certainly true of me. When I was very young I never left the house without my two plastic six shooters strapped on. There is a stretch in our old family photo albums where all the pictures of me show me wearing boots, six guns and a cowboy hat. That's how I defined myself then :P

And guns are powerful. All the movies say, if you got a loaded gun in your hand, you're a bad motherfucker and you make the rules. And who doesn't want to be that? Nothing quite feels like a loaded gun in your hand. Especially if you don't hold one often. It's heavy, and not just physically. Having that gun in your hand puts you in a different frame of mind.

Despite this, I don't own a gun.
For one, they are expensive. I mean, if I got one, I wouldn't want a cheap piece of shit.
Two, I don't really see the need for one. Beyond the techno geek joy of holding it and admiring it and taking it out and shooting stuff up (which isn't really cheap either, beyond the cost of the ammo, I don't really know of any good places to go shooting that are free.) I don't see the point of owning a gun.

I asked my buddy that had a concealed carry permit and brings his pistol with him when we play poker, why? His answer was that due to his job (he's a locksmith) he travels a lot, often in remote rural areas, with a van full of expensive tools and he felt he needed some protection. I asked him if he was willing to shoot somebody to keep them from stealing his van full of tools and he said that wasn't the point. He had insurance for the tools. He wanted to protect himself. From random psychos, I suppose.

I can understand wanting to not be killed by random psychos, but does that really happen all that often? I'm 41 years old and I've never been in a situation where I needed a gun to feel safe. I imagine that I've often been in situations where having a gun at hand might have been dangerous. Times when melancholy + too much beer + too much of The Smiths might have had me doing something stupid with that gun. Or just too much beer might have had me do some other stupid thing with that gun. Or too much anger.

Of course, my inability to control myself, one might say, is no reason for other people to be denied the right to own and bear arms, and that would be correct. I think that lots of people might be more dangerous with a gun in easy reach.

What it comes down to, the danger presented by a loaded gun being within easy reach 24/7 I think greatly outweighs the danger of a random psycho doing me bodily harm because I didn't have a gun.

That's because, sorry, but... people are stupid. Guns are very powerful and most people are too stupid to have access to that power. Stupid and unwise. Or just ignorant.

Many years ago, some friends were gaming at one of their apartments. The guy whose apartment they were gaming at was really into the paint ball fad that was going on then and had several paint ball guns. One of the other dudes that was there wandered into the bedroom and came back out holding a loaded shotgun. Round in the chamber. It was a short barreled gun with a pistol grip handle so it didn't really look like your standard shotgun, but still. He came out holding this and said something about 'what a cool paint ball gun this is'. Everybody else knew it wasn't a paint ball gun and managed to get it away from him without mishap, but it could have been a very bad situation. The guy wasn't really stupid, but he was ignorant about guns.

When I was very young and my dad was still in the army, we had a neighbor who kept a loaded shotgun next to his front door just 'in case any niggers try to break in'. One day his little girl accidently killed herself with that gun. What can you say? Tell some NRA guy that story and he'll lecture you on responsible gun ownership, but the fact is, many many people that own guns are not responsible. That's the problem.

I used to be in the NRA myself when I was a kid. Used to target shoot 22's at Fort Ord and had to join the NRA to do so. So you best watch it around me!

And then there is the idea that we need to be able to own guns to protect ourselves from tyrants. I agree 100%.

But. Will an army of citizens armed with deer rifles be much of a threat against our modern military? I don't know. I think at one time this was a viable thought, but the gap between private military science and what the government has in military science has be become so large that this argument is losing it's credibility.

And really, if we were going to actually rise up against a tryant, wouldn't now be a good time for it? I'd say this is the closest we've been to a government in need of being overthrown, but mention that possiblity and you'll be branded a radicial leftist terrorist. Probably by the same NRA guys that told you they needed their guns to protect themselves from tyrants.